Guys, Are You Listening?

A Hubs, last year: “I’d rather just masturbate than go through the hassle of initiating.”

Same Hubs, a year later: “We’re getting a divorce.”


May 29, 2016 · 2:59 pm

43 responses to “Guys, Are You Listening?

  1. All I can really say is Wow! And we wonder Why?

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Phil

    My wife would rather masturbate than have sex let alone iniate but she doesn’t want a divorce.

    Ironic isn’t it!

    Liked by 1 person

  3. G

    Or possibly chatting with your wife about taking the initiatory role once in a while. Hmmm, communication. Open, honest discussions. Novel thought.


    • You are assuming that the poor sod hasn’t tried talking to his wife over the years. I know that this isn’t the case.


      • Jack

        But some times you reach the point where you can reasonably and in good faith (in all senses of that word) stop talking and take action – sort of like the possibly apocryphal anecdote (ha, take that 😉 ) about William Penn, George Fox and Penn’s sword.

        On the other hand, each of us as to make that decision for ourselves…

        Liked by 1 person

  4. Jack

    Phil, the question is: what do YOU want?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Phil

      Hi Jack

      My only wish is to feel my wife’s desire to be intimate with me. Just a hint of affection that differentiates our relationship from that of house-mates would be a start but I get nothing but rejection however or whatever I try and I’ve tried everyrhing I can think of.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Hi, Phil. Let me see if this is right.
        Your wife wants:
        1 – to not have sex,
        2 – to masturbate, instead,
        3 – but still be married.

        You want affection and intimacy.

        Your goal for your marriage seems to be diametrically opposed to her goals. Unfortunately, Amos 3:3 comes to mind. “Can two walk together except they be agreed?”


  5. Phil

    CSL you are absolutely spot on in your assessment if you simply consider the goals to be just sex related but, having survived 25-years of marriage with lengthy (not weeks or months but years and years)) spells of gatekeeping or refusal, there clearly must be more to my marriage than just sex or intimacy (fun/laughter, support/security, friends/family and children spring to mind).

    However, I have a dilema that reguarly plays on my mind which I could use some help with!

    When ever the subject of sex or intimacy is brought up (yes I do communicate with my wife about this often) she protests that sexual hurt & harm from her past has caught up with her and has caused some sort of mental block. She apologises for her position, yearns for some help but is so daunted by what may be un-earthed that she lives in a status-quo with regards sex to protect herself. We have tried many things to try and deal with this but nothing has worked so far. She does however, request that I love her and support her by not demanding something she feels unable to give. My head tells me that there is logic to this and I did say ‘for better or worse’ in front of God when we got married.


    I know that my wife is physically capable of sexual intimacy and I know she has had great sex before I met her (I know this from reading her diaries many years ago). The sex we had was originally plentiful but I know it wasn’t as fulfilling as she’d had before no matter how hard I tried. This was sort of confirmed when we started counselling a while back when the counsellor, upon hearing our story, put this down to the ‘connection’ that my wife must’ve had the person before (that hurt when it was said by the way). So my heart tells me that I don’t do it for my wife and because of this she has lost interest in sex and refuses my advances but remains married because I bring so much to her life in other ways.

    So, my quandry – do I listen to my head or my heart?

    PS – I know many will probably say my wife should work at keeping her vows but what if the sexual hurt she suffers is so bad that she has to protect herself at the potential risk of our marriage.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Phil

      I’m also aware that many will say I should pray and listen to God…..well maybe that is the very reason why I gave you the graphic detail of my dilema…..maybe my story will highlight that its important to not give up one’s marriage easily, that there’s never a right or wrong answer but perhaps to put one’s own needs ahead of anothers too hastily may actually cause more suffering than one can first envisage………maybe there are always two sides to a problem and a decision cannot be made until both sides are made apparent.

      Liked by 1 person

    • [quick note – I called in the “big guns”. Robin is someone Chris (Forgiven Wife) and I consider the absolute-must go-to when discussing abuse. A TMB regular, I’m glad to have her comment here._]

      From what I am reading it appears your wife was at the very least sexually used and at the worst abused and betrayed by someone she trusted which is causing a mental block in regard to sex with you that she is unwilling to deal with because she is afraid of what “might be” unearthed. Correct?

      Here’s the thing, whether what happened to her was use or abuse is irrelevant, what matters is that it happened and cannot be changed and the fallout from it is affecting you, your wife and your marriage negatively which means it’s long past time to deal with it.

      I am a survivor of sexual abuse and assault. I too was afraid to dig up all that garbage and deal with it because I knew it would be painful. But abuse touches everyone in the immediate radius of the survivor whether the survivor wants it to or not. My husband, our marriage and our sex life were touched by what happened to me so I finally chose to quit running from it, turn around and face it head on. The life I wanted meant FAR more to me than my fear. It was painful, expensive, time consuming and at the time it seriously sucked. It was also one of the best decisions I ever made. Now I live in complete victory over abuse with a thriving, healthy marriage and sex life and have for over 20 years.

      Phil, your wife needs individual counseling. Not just for the sake of your marriage but for her own sake. If she will do the work and heal from her past your sex life will improve as a natural by-product. But the only way to get her there is to disrupt the status quo. She has requested you not ask her for something she doesn’t have it in her to give and you have complied. That needs to end. It’s time to communicate clearly that you have done things her way long enough, it’s failed and you won’t (not can’t, WON’T) do it any longer. Let her know that you want more for HER, yourself and your marriage and that starts with her doing the work to heal from her past. Let her know you want her to be healthy and living in victory more than anything else and that you will support her in achieving that 100%, but you won’t continue with the status quo. Be loving about it, but firm.

      You would benefit from individual counseling as well. The years of gatekeeping and refusal have taken their toll on you. Reading your wife’s diary left you with insecurities that have no business in your marriage. Please, get the help that both of you need.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Phil


        Thank you so much for your time, your wise words are very much appreciated.

        Following my open hearted comments on here I felt the need to start ‘Opereation Status Quo’ which was initially received surprisingly well, then within 24-hours came the back-lash as my wife realised the gravity of what I was saying. Thankfully your straight forward & timely advice has given me the strength to keep the pressure on and take my stance from can’t to won’t. For this I am very grateful.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Robin,

        I have seen a blog that I’m pretty sure you were the author of… but I can’t find the link anymore. I know there weren’t any new posts for quite awhile, but there were several posts I’d like to revisit. And, I’d like to ask some questions, too.

        Could you post the address here, please? Following the gravatar link doesn’t lead to the blog.


      • I don’t think that Robin is a blogger; I have seen comments by a Robin on the Forgiven Wife blog, but I don’t think that is this Robin.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Robin

        Hi there, Object of Contempt, I am NOT the author of that blog. My name is spelled with an “i” not “y”. 🙂

        Liked by 2 people

      • Glad to see you are about. 🙂


      • Mr. Curmudgeonly,

        My last comment has a link, but I incorrectly typed the html tag and it doesn’t work. If you won’t mind, would you please strip everything but the URL from that line? (or correct the attributes if you prefer)

        Sorry about that.


      • Hi, OOC,

        Now that Robin has weighed in, I just went ahead and deleted it. Glad to see you still here. 🙂


  6. IntimacySeeker

    Phil, thank you for your candor. I pray God will bring new life to your marriage. Your wife reminds me of myself not long ago. I too chose emotional safety over sexual intimacy as the two were (in my mind) mutually exclusive.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Robin,
    Thank you for stopping here and sharing the benefit of your experience and knowledge. I really appreciate your taking the time to respond to Phil’s needs.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Phil, backlash is completely normal. You can expect anything from fury to anger, resignation, denial, tears, avoidance, bargaining, minimizing, testing and so much more, especially since she didn’t get much warning that things were headed for a 180 degree turnaround.

    Allow me to run with an analogy for a minute here: Think of a survivors coping mechanism(s) like a crutch that was helping to prop up a long ago fractured leg that never got to heal properly. The crutch not only became your wife’s habit, it became such a fundamental part of herself that she designed outfits around it for decades. You changing the status quo kicked her crutch out from under her, broke it in tiny pieces, shredded the rubber stopper on the bottom that minimized the impact of each step and no one can find the pad for the armpit. Even if you tried to piece it back together the crutch will never be the same, just in time for the leg the crutch was supporting to start making it’s issues known. The bone structure is still fragile and the muscles are nowhere near strong enough to bear her full weigh much less walk without a significant limp. 100% recovery is possible but the leg has to be re-fractured, the muscles that adapted to walking with a crutch now have to be retrained and it’s going to be a long, painful process. Your wife isn’t just healing from a freshly fractured leg without her favorite crutch, she has to heal from the original injury, and retrain her entire body and mind to do what it didn’t learn the first time and that’s to walk a straight line using only her own strength. Your role in this process is to be her physical therapist. You can support and guide her in rebuilding but you CANNOT do any of the work for her. At times you will be standing at a distance watching her form to make sure she doesn’t take any shortcuts that could lead to weakness in the future, other times you will be right at her SIDE modeling how to do the exercises properly. That means YOU need to recognize the difference between healthy and unhealthy and what will build strength or breed weakness and that my friend is what makes counseling VITAL for BOTH of you.

    In nearly 20 years of mentoring fellow abuse survivors in all phases of the healing process I’ve seen some survivors cling to their crutch like it’s the last life raft on the Titanic while others are not only ready to ditch the crutch but are happy to burn it to ashes so they will never depend on it again. What a survivor has to not only dig up,acknowledge, process and eventually make their peace with is ugly and filled with toxic baggage. It doesn’t matter if the abuser(s) was a stranger who jumped out from the bushes, or someone we knew, trusted and maybe even loved – SURVIVORS WILL ALWAYS find a way to BLAME OURSELVES. Being abused was one thing, but I really couldn’t forgive myself for needing help dealing with it and even more ticked at myself when I saw the fruit of my poor coping mechanisms. I was convinced it was just more weakness and failure. Once I got healthy I realized that getting help and pursuing health actually took A LOT of strength. My point is that logic doesn’t always come into play when dealing with past abuse and no one knows where your wife will land on the spectrum. She could be ready to let it all go or she could cling to the things that have gotten through it to this point, only time will reveal that answer. In the meantime you assume crash position and brace for impact. Make sure that you communicate clearly to your wife that you love her and you are invested in her healing and peace. If that’s true, then let her know that what you want more than anything is health and healing for you, her and your marriage.

    Phil, please hear me when I say this. Help and healing for YOU is every bit as important as your wife’s healing. In fact, if you won’t do the work necessary to heal from the hurts of the past there really isn’t much point in holding any kind of mirror up to your wife. This is NOT the time to be myopic. You and your wife are in my prayers. ~Robin

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Frank

    Can’t blame him!! Life is too short. Breaking free from misery is the best option. That’s all that is left for me. Complaining to my wife thatcher is a hypocrite, frigid as well as threatening to leave has her calling me a verbal abuser. That’s what her counselor told her anyway and she agrees. Is it though? Next time I will have something to say about it will be the day I tell her I don’t want to be married to her anymore.


    • ~ Can’t blame him!! Life is too short.

      I agree that life is too short. And I don’t blame him, either. I do know that he has made attempts to improve his marriage.

      ~ Breaking free from misery is the best option.

      Actually, the best option is improving the marriage. But it does become an acceptable option if attempts to better the marriage are rebuffed with prejudice.

      ~ That’s all that is left for me.

      Since this is a first-time comment, I’m going to withhold my imprimatur, as I would have to know more. As in, are you a Christian? Is your wife a Christian? Are you active in church? How long has refusal/gatekeeping been a part of your marriage? What work have you done in the past to improve your marriage? At a minimum, I would need to have those answers fleshed out before agreeing that divorce is all that is left you. In my Amputation article, I listed my rules for divorce. If you haven’t done those, then I couldn’t agree with you.

      ~ Complaining to my wife thatcher [that she?] is a hypocrite, frigid as well as threatening to leave has her calling me a verbal abuser. That’s what her counselor told her anyway and she agrees.

      On the face of just this comment, I’d have to agree with her counselor. First off, “frigid”? That was just wrong; it would be like a wife calling her husband “gay”. Yes, some wives are asexual, but all too often, husbands don’t understand the difference between male and female desire and arousal. If you can’t demonstrate that you know the difference and can explain how you wife doesn’t fall within the parameters of that difference, you haven’t demonstrated that your labelling her ‘frigid’ is descriptive rather than just stinkin’ mean!

      And “hypocrite?” Please tell me you didn’t try to use the Bible as a prybar to get her into bed. Anyway, there isn’t a damned one of us who isn’t a hypocrite about something!

      ~ Is it though? Next time I will have something to say about it will be the day I tell her I don’t want to be married to her anymore.

      I’ve come to believe that toxic marriages should be ended, and it is clear that there is a high level of toxicity here. However, as this is a first-time comment, I would ask you if you have done the work, the heavy-lifting needed to show that you’ve actually tried to make a go of it. I don’t know your wife; for that matter, what I know of you is just this comment. But before you pull the trigger and make another hurtful comment, go back and read A Wife’s Heart, and if there is a mite of merciful memory left to you, see if you have contributed to the toxicity of your marriage.

      Wife just brought an old song to my memory: Games People Play, by Joe South (look it up on YouTube). The second stanza says:

      We make one another cry
      Break a heart and say ‘goodbye’
      Cross our hearts and hope to die
      That the other was to blame.

      I get that you are saying this, but is it possible that your wife is saying the same thing?

      Frank, I’m not writing this to be mean. I do believe marriage is important, and if you don’t do the heavy lifting to make it work, you will only repeat the process down the road. After all, those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


      • Jack

        This stuff…life, marriage…is so hard. (:-/

        I am well past the point where I could be comfortable, in every respect, firing my wife…

        …the thing is, continuing the employment metaphor, I’m not comfortable quitting. Heaven knows why…actually, that’s probably literally true, but that’s a different conversation. Or not…see, I told you it was hard… 😀

        There was a thought-provoking post on TGMP a couple of weeks ago on the topic of how, in a long-term relationship, the truth that no one talks about is that partners *will* have to put up with toxic, outrageous behavior from time to time. The author (Heather Gray, IIRC) said that no one like to talk about this because it’s very difficult to distinguish this from clinically abusive relationships, which no one can give a pass, especially in the non-interactive format of the internet. I’m sort of rambling, but when I evaluate my/our marriage, where I’m standing and what my perspective is at the time makes a big difference in the conclusions I start to reach.


      • Just a quick couple of things:

        1) what is TGMP?
        2) I disagree with that writer about having to put up with toxic behavior. Having a good sense of boundaries, of knowing right from wrong and being strong enough to say “I’m not going to stick around for this” will help stop that dynamic from playing out.


      • Jack

        The “reply” function seems to be a little messed up, so this is probably going to show up in the wrong place…

        TGMP = The Good Men Project (

        The toxic behavior topic is hard! I may be mis-summarizing her essay. Here’s the URL:

        I’d be super-interested in your comments on her essay. It made a lot of sense to me, if only because I’m pretty darned sure that I occasionally drop toxic incidents into various parts of my life (and therefore into others’ lives as well)! I think it’s a question of degree and frequency (among others)…?

        Liked by 1 person

      • My immediate reaction is that we are having a disagreement over nomenclature. To me, “toxic behavior” is soul-corrosive; it’s words and deeds that suck the spirit out of a body. What she describes seems to me to lack the invective and acidity of toxic behavior.

        On a quick glance-through, she seems to be putting forward “inexcusable behavior” that we are all capable of, and for which sincere shame and apology are meant for.

        I may be wrong in my understanding and a more thorough review will correct me; if that be the case, then I’ll ask for pardon and re-address it. But the truth is that we do have to deal with the ‘unforgivable,’ which it turns out to be forgivable.

        “Forgive us our sins as we forgive others.”


      • Jack

        Well said.

        Another quasi-tangent. Sheila Gregoire had a post a week or two back on dealing with conflict. To avoid misrepresenting the post 😉 here’s a snip. She argues that “conflicts” actually come in significantly different flavors:

        “1. Silly conflicts–we misunderstand each other, assume the worst, or just get grumpy
        2. Serious conflicts–we disagree about an important matter
        3. Sinful conflicts–someone has broken trust”

        She says that applying a one-size-fits-all resolution model tends to over-dignify the first category and can underestimate the third. Post is here:

        …and I think I’d better stop moving the comments off the main thread!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Frank

        Thanks for your response!!

        First off… we are both Christian, but not active in the church. I’m a believer, she is a notional Christian. Not really a believer, but observes the holidays etc.

        What have I done to improve our marriage? You really put me on the spot. I’ve always tried to put in my fair share in all the things a parent and husband is required to do. All I get in return is criticism, and justification for the criticism whenever I assert myself. So I have found myself checking out of the marriage emotionally. I just want one thing…. SEX and for her to show up for it. Not go through mechanical motions. She complains I don’t put her on a pedestal. Why should she be wined and dined, lavished with massages, gifts etc if it’s all a fools errand (does not lead to sex). I thought marriages we’re meant to be equal partnerships? Constant criticism is emotional abuse and has never improved a marriage.

        Calling her frigid, is calling a spade a spade. She doesn’t like sex. She claims bodies change, it should be something that consumes you etc She won’t say it outright, as she knows that it is a deal breaker. It should be right? She should be honest about it. If (when rather) we divorce she can not do what she doesn’t like doing and watch re-runs of The Graham Norton Show and The Big Bang Theory with an asexual male or her man hating divorced girl friends. I would be doing her a favour. I called her frigid out of frustration, she refuses to attend counselling and HATES talking about sex. Like I said, life is short. Calling her a hypocrite was merely calling her out on her persistent double standards on everything. Am I short sighted or obsessed? I do indulge in porn, but what else can I do?

        I have read your Amputated post it is very insightful. I have done some of it and attempting to do others would be moot without commitment from her. I guess I should do it so I can walk away and shrug telling myself and my children Hey, I did try!!! I’ve talked to a lawyer, so I know what I’m up for should it a divorce occur.

        Thanks for you time in answering my response. Again, I appreciate it.


    • Frank, I am sorry your marriage is such a source of pain. My guess is that it is a source of pain for your wife as well.

      Breaking free from misery may seem your best option, but I would encourage you to explore all your options. Maybe there is nothing you can do to save it–but it is important that you try.

      Speaking as a wife, I will say that if my husband were to complain to me about hypocrisy and frigidity, I would be deeply hurt. In fact, given the fact that my sexual disconnection from him would be the result of hurt I already had, the addition of more hurt and more hurtful words would have pushed me farther away. Your words toward your wife not only have not helped you, they may have created some of what you see now.

      As CSL has suggested in his reply to your comment, please read A Wife’s Heart, a guest post I wrote for this blog. Then read the following Colloquy series where CSL and I really dig into the suggestions I make.

      Your comment speaks bitterness. Bitterness poisons a marriage. Rather than decide you won’t speak of it again until you tell her you are done, I encourage you to do the work necessary to be the best husband to her you can be. (How do I know you haven’t made that effort yet? I don’t–but given the words you have shared, it’s a pretty safe guess on my part.) Give your marriage a chance. If it still doesn’t heal, you and your wife will both be better prepared to handle what comes next. Become the kind of husband she would regret losing rather than one she will be glad to see gone.

      I am sorry you are hurting and am praying for you, your wife, and your marriage to begin healing.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Frank

        Dear ForgivenWife

        Thank you for your response. The sexual disconnection is mostly due to her willingness too use sex as a weapon to punish me for any shortcomings or a reward if I ever reach those ever moving goal posts. She says herself…. sex is a WANT, not a NEED. Have you every heard other ladies say that before? Did you ever believe that? After years of being told ‘You’re lucky to have me you know’ or ‘who else would put up with you?’ making me feel like a piece of potential disposable garbage. Like she did me a favour marrying me or something. I responded with ‘Who would tolerate your frigid -ness?’ which did not go down well. This is where the bitterness may stem from.
        It’s true though. The next guy she meets, if or when we break up, will not stick around as she wants her cake and eat it too.
        She feels vindicated when a friend of ours bragged she is only willing to sleep with her husband once a month even though she doesn’t work. She flippantly tells him ‘Too bad’ I see her husband as a pushover for allowing himself to be in that situation.

        I did read your article and I must say that it is excellently written as is a similar reflection of our situation. I will try to heal her heart, but I have to overcome my cynicism and the thought that she may be becoming rewarded for her gatekeeping.

        Thanks for your time also.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. She says herself…. sex is a WANT, not a NEED. Have you every heard other ladies say that before? Did you ever believe that?

    I said it all the time, because it was what I believed. I didn’t understand why my husband couldn’t just take care of things himself–because I didn’t understand that sex was about more than just the orgasm for him.

    Please understand that it is not your responsibility to heal your wife’s heart. That is on her shoulders. What I encourage you to do is to do what is yours to do–pray for her, repent for any ways you have hurt her, and work on your own healing. It is still up to her to choose to heal or not. Start with that cynicism (although I do understand why you have it). Choose to see her as a hurting child of God who needs grace and love, not just as a gatekeeper whose actions have hurt you.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Hi, Frank,

    Thank you for returning. I realize that my response wasn’t a kleenex-and-cuppa, but I’m glad for more info. First, are you a denizen of The Marriage Bed (link in my sidebar)? If not, go there and register, and start posting. A forum is a whole lot more conducive to sharing and getting help than a comments section. There are many great people there with a vast ocean of experience.

    Second, with better knowledge of your situation, I can say a couple of things. Lose the porn. Now. You are a Christian and you know that it isn’t an option. “What else can I do?” Not porn.

    The pedestal thing? Yeah, she can lose that, too. If she feels that she needs to be put on some pedestal, tough! Any wife who things that she’s a prize and a jewel ain’t worth it. If you have to advertise your awesomeness, you aren’t awesome. That said, her bad behavior is no excuse for bad behavior on your part. You’re a Christian, do life as a Christian man should.

    I don’t know what everyday life is like for you and your wife, but from your responses to Chris and me, I understand that there are walls and deep resentments on both sides. If sniping is constant fare, I might give consideration to suggestions in my Therapeutic Distancing posts (

    What you do from now forward isn’t about being able to tell others, “I tried.” It’s about becoming the person God wants you to be. After all, if you don’t change, you’ll still be you in any relationship in the future.

    Brace yourself; you’ve got quite a bit of reading to do. My posts, yes. TMB, most definitely. Hie thee over there today and start posts. Books? Oh, yes. One immediate read I recommend is Boundaries, by Cloud and Townsend. Also, Love & Respect, by Eggerichs.



    • Jack

      Contrarian post alert… 😉

      I know that generalizations are, as a general matter, useless, but here goes.

      I found TMB a largely unproductive use of time. Why? Because my impression (two qualifications there) was that a lot of the posts about sexual gatekeeping and refusal basically fell into the category of “My spouse won’t have sex with me and s/he is sinning.”

      Forgive me, but if that’s really the attitude – my spouse owes me something and I’m unhappy about the fact that s/he won’t change – then maybe it’s no wonder.

      This stuff starts inside, with you (me). Have you really taken a look at yourself? Would you be attracted to yourself? Would you want to be married to yourself? Are you walking in love, grace, charity, patience and forgiveness? Are you giving what you’d like to receive?

      I like Glover’s point here. You really only have two things you can control. You can control yourself: how you behave, how you respond. And you can control who you let into (and let stay in) your life. Fix yourself up. If others (including your spouse) persist in unacceptable behavior, change your life to move them out of it. Just be sure you’ve done your work on yourself and wrestled with God first.


      • Actually, they begin with a deeper starting point, that God created sex for a reason, and that to deny sex for selfish reasons is sin. While some may come with a sense of entitlement, they are soon disabused of that notion. That said, sex is a part of marriage, and for one spouse to impose celibacy on the other IS sin. (1 Cor. 7:1-5)

        You will find that those who post on TMB also agree that you can only affect yourself. That’s true of TMB posters and other bloggers. But that doesn’t mean that you complacently accept the status quo. Yes, you do the heavy-lifting to be and become a man of integrity (my Waiting series from last fall addressed that. But that doesn’t mean one can’t work to change the dynamic of a marriage; you aren’t enjoined to merely smile while being served a crapsandwich. Bottom line, one doesn’t have to have achieved beatification to ‘earn’ a satisfying sex life.

        I will say this about TMB – there are many good posters over there, but there can be a few stinkweeds. I will say that whenever Job29Man posts on TMB, give heed. He’s the author of the Shot Across the Bow and End of Normal Life posts that I presented in my Adressing the Sexless Marriage series.

        Forgive my ignorance, but who is Glover?


      • Jack

        Agreed – thank you. I guess my perception was that the entitlement attitude was a lot more prominent than I thought it should be. Frankly, I get a lot more out of your posts and the comments here than anything I’ve read at TMB.


      • The fact that I am persona non grata on TMB doesn’t mean that I don’t see value in the forum. I think a comment section makes for a poor forum and that there can be help in the act of mere venting; something akin to a primal scream, if you will. 🙂

        While it may be that there are those who do feel entitled, I also think that there are those who overreact at the implied consent of “I do”, and have a kneejerk reaction to it. Kind of like an old fire horse getting a whiff of smoke in his nostrils and wanting to run.

        Marriage is a sexual relationship, and to complain that someone has entitlement issues denies that relationship. Either be in the relationship or get out of it; don’t impose a life of misery on your spouse.


      • Jack

        I totally agree about “I do.” If you didn’t, you needed different vows. If you don’t any longer, find another sort of relationship – with someone else, please. I think you are probably aware of my general situation enough to know that I am very fully and seriously engaged in trying to deal with parallel lives and sexless marriage. I think most of the reason I’m still engaged is that I’m convinced that my wife’s “issues” are not the only issue: I still have stuff to work out and work on myself. I am confident that the right answer will become clear at the right time. Until then I will press on. Life is complicated.

        Liked by 1 person

  12. Frank

    Hi guys,

    I stumbled upon this interesting link. Titlesd; An Open Letter to the Sh**ty Husband.

    Excuse the profanity in the title. Well worth a read and stopped me in my tracks and forced me to rethink my strategy. I hope that it provokes discussion. This guy is very honest and give you an insight to what you will be signing up for if you fit into the category. I know it has helped me a lot, where I could not see the forrest for the trees, it gave me a bit of clarity and lots of food for thought.


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